Are LMM's Works Evil?

Discuss the author's literature and life.
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Post by Shinnen » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:29 pm

Maybe I'm ignorant, but it seems like witch and ghost stories weren't such a big deal until Harry Potter came out. My mom would read me stories with magic in them when I was little, and we didn't think anything evil of them then; of course I was small so I wouldn't have known what everyone else was saying about magic then. :P
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Post by AvonLea » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:06 pm

And you know, if I was reviewing books and all, I wouldn't be bashing "Anne of Green Gables" when there are books like...well, Harry Potter. Not trying to offend anyone, and not saying they are bad, but I'm just saying that there is more magic and spells in that than bad stuff in "Anne". Doesn't make sense to me.
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Post by Mariposa » Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:23 am

Not that magic and spells are a bad thing. *clears throat* =P

I don't understand people. Even LMM's supernatural works are harmless. There's no cursing (except maybe the occasional 'damn', and it's not as though it's endorsed), no violence (I can't even remember a slap), and very little kissing, if anything (and definitely nothing beyond that). I think some are just looking for something to pick at.

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Post by AvonLea » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:00 am

Mariposa wrote:Not that magic and spells are a bad thing. *clears throat* =Pat.
No, of course not. I read fantasy books with them, I was just using Harry Potter as an example. :)
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Post by jeremiah2911 » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:05 pm

I guess I always viewed Anne as someone with really high functiong Aspbergers Syndrome. It is very common for someone with Aspergers to be very intelligent, imaginative and have an uncontrollable temper. It doesn't mean that they cannot be Christian. I don't think any Pagan would marry a minister. :?
I always saw Paul Irvin as Aspergers also, pleople have always thought these types were little wrong "in their upper story." As a result Anne and Paul were kindred spirits. :wink:
I have not read anything outside of the Anne line, so I cannot speculate on those books.
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Post by Timothy » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:29 am

I can see Paul having Aspbergers, but not Anne. Anne seemed more able to pick up on emotional cues.

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Post by The Chef » Tue May 06, 2008 8:18 am

You cannot compare Harry Potter and LMM in my opinion. Anyone who has some knowledge of the occult, knows that the creator of Harry Potter has a very deep understanding of witchcraft.

As to the question of evil. Please let this be made clear first: it always depends on your perspective. To me, a fundamental christian, calling some things evil does NOT suggest that the person who does things considered evil by me, is himself or herself possessed of an evil nature, or is willingly hurting and deceiving people. If I tell a lie, that is an evil deed, but it does not change the fact that I am and remain a child of my heavenly Father. Evil things can be done with the best and purest motives. One must distinguish between evil things/works, and the inner motives of a person. Second, naturally, atheists or new agers would not call dabbling in the occult or the esoteric world evil. So to them, it is ludicrous to call LMM works evil. I can sympathize with them since I was an occultist myself many years ago. I myself also ridiculed the christian view of evil before and was irritated by the warnings against new age and occultism. But my view has changed. According to the Bible there are two spiritual worlds, one is good, and one is intrinsically evil. It may not APPEAR evil, but history has shown that persons who were intrinsically evil, such as the emperor Nero or Adolf Hitler, were very much loved by the majority of the people, and were even elected in a democratic process. Theyt were regarded as little messiah's. We humans have a very nasty habit, which is to be overly confident in our own mental ability to judge things we actually have no knowledge of. For those who believe in a spirit world: have you ever considered that if it is easy for other people whom we can see to mislead and deceive us by their words and appearences, how easy it must be for invisible beings to deceive us? But no, as soon as they seean apparition that feels and looks good, they judge it to be good. How foolish. We tend to think that our minds are 100% fail-safe. And yet we don't realize that the mind is the weakest faculty of our whole being.

There are those who are deceived into calling good things evil, and evil things good. Being deceived in these matters is a question of the mind, NOT the heart. There are deceived innocent dupes who go forth deceiving others thinking they are not doing anything bad, and there are deceivers who deliberately deceive others. There's a difference. Now does RTA tempt me to dive into the occult? No, I came out of it decades ago. It's different with Harry Potter though. Of course not all children will be seduced by the Potter movies into the occult, but some children are more sensitive than others, and it is possible for a sensitive and impressionable child to be softly and gently "guided" into the occult if their interest is aroused.

About christian fundamentalism. It grieves me that in these days fundamentalism has gotten a negative meaning, and it is all because of islamic fundamentalism. It suggests that christians HATE sinners, which is a travesty. A real christian has a deep love for EVERY human being. They do not love many of the works or deeds of sinners, but even unbelievers hate some things done by others if these things do not match their own moral standard. The difference is that christians see more things as unbecoming than non-christians. As if I wouldn't know how an unbeliever reasons; I've been one myself. There are even those who compare islamic fundamentalism with christian fundamentalism. These people clearly show that they don't know what they are talking about; they are clearly caught in a semantic trap. Do they actually know what the "fundament" of a christian actually is? Of course, a fundamental christian believes the Bible, and knows that the supernatural world is not a figment of the imagination, but a reality. Therefore dabbling into the world of ghosts is strictly forbidden by God because it is declared dangerous by Him. God knows how many had to be institutionalized because they felt they had to contact the spirit world. In RTA the supernatural world of ghosts (actually evil spirits) is mocked by the nominal christian world in the show, and HK specifically says that ghosts don't exist - well they don't exist in the way they are explained of course, they are not the spirits of dead people, but evil spirits impersonating them. Which shows that even a presbyterian can be wrong :wink:

To sum things up. The overall tone of the series RTA is not evil in my opinion. I watched the episode about the vampire stuff once or twice, and I must say I don't feel the desire of watching that episode again. It has a dark sentiment that I just don't like. Does it have humor that episode? Sure. Are there scenes in the episode I like? Sure. Do I rant and rave because the episode has some darker side? No. But it has a dark undercurrent in a few scenes (no, not the bats, they are simply normal creatures), and thats why I don't perticularly like that episode.
Last edited by The Chef on Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Wild Roses » Tue May 06, 2008 5:44 pm

Having dealt with fundamental Christians, I don't believe they are loving of every human being. It's the fundamentalist Christians in the United States who are always screaming outside of military funerals that the soldier deserved to die because it is punishment for having gay in the military. It is the fundamental Christians in the United States who cheer on the death of gays and lesbians and label ALL gays and lesbians as child molestors (I happen to know several people who are gay and lesbian and they are NOT child molesters.). It is the fundamental Christians in the United States who blow up abortion clinics and shoot doctors for practicing abortion but refuse to provide healthcare for poor children if the woman decides to keep the child (women living in poverty are more apt to get abortions if they can). So, your argument that fundamentalists are loving is...utter and complete crap to me. Although I only going by the fundamentalists who live in the United States. Maybe they are a bit more enlightened and compassionate and less given to acts of violence over in Europe.

I snorted at your desription of Harry Potter being evil. Even after all these years, that accusation by fundamentalist Christians still cracks me up. Well, if Harry Potter is evil, at least the series doesn't promote racism and sexism the way the Narnia series does. (Now, I do enjoy the Narnia series, but it is racist and sexist even by the standards of the day it was written in.) I have yet to hear any reports of children turning to 'witchcraft' and the 'occult' since the books came out and I've been reading them since I was in high school. Why is Tolkien's and Lewis's use of magic okay but not JKR's? Oh, that's right, both identified as Christian and spoke about it, whereas JKR chooses not to discuss her spiritual beliefs publicly (although it is on the record that she attends church).

You can't judge LMM's work just by the RTA tv series. True, it is mostly based on the her work, but that mostly resides in the first two seasons. Seasons 3-7 are largely the product of the tv writers' imaginations. True, in those later seasons, LMM's original work was still an inspiration, but the series also takes many liberties with her writing as well.

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Post by The Chef » Tue May 06, 2008 10:41 pm

You are clearly generalizing. I don't have any respect for so-called christians shouting at funerals or blowing up abortian clinics. That is evil behavior. Not all fundamentalist christians condone these things. They don't know God. If they did know Him they would not dare to utter one word without His command. They are rebels, plain and simple. I sense a some bitterness in your post and that saddens me.

We DON'T have those things in OUR country. Thats for sure. That's the first thing I want to say. When we watch how some christians behave in the USA, we are shocked. We also do not understand why even christians are celebrating the fact that 21 year old young man receives his first gun. It really boggles our minds. Christianity in our country is totally different.

Second. I myself have been into the occult world, so I do believe I know what I'm talking about. Those who do not have a deep knowledhe of the occult, do not see the deeper signs of witchcraft in the Potter movies, especially the last ones. That is VERY clear to me.

Tolkien is even darker than Rowling, and more dangerous. Tolkien was into theosophy, a movement started by madame Blavatsky and two other people. Racism and sexism is evil, but witchcraft is also evil, a different kind of evil, not recognized as such by those who don't know what it really is. But of course, those who do not believe the Bible won't see it as evil anyway. So what's there to discuss really? But know this, those who don't accept the Bible judge only by their own "light", wherever that comes from. We human beings by nature reject all light that is uncomfortable. Look at what the so-called light from the French Revolution has brought us. Nothing but trouble.

Lewis is also not kosher. I know perfectly well which so-called christian authors do not teach the entire truth of the Bible. Goes for Billy Graham too, and all those "toothpaste smile" pastors such as Robert Schuller, Rick Warren and his new age friends, and all those other fake masonic money hungry tv preachers who don't know the meaning of living a holy life.

As to J.K. Rowling, she not only knows her witchcraft, she knows illuminati witchcraft, if you know the difference. Not even many real witches know illuminati witchcraft. But she consistently uses illuminist symbols to portray key elements in her books, and she uses them in exactly the correct illuminist meaning. To me that is a red flag. She claims that she invented most of it herself. That's a blunt lie. O yes, she invented the story line, if that's what she means she's telling the truth. But the witchcraft in the books is very authentic - ex-witches testify to that. That she attends church doesn't mean anything in itself. I don't know her personally, so I cannot judge her, but what I DO know from my own background (which I will keep to myself) is that witches attend church too, but not to worship Jesus, thats for sure. Bill Clinton attends church too. But he's a high-level mason and a very evil man. By the way, as an ex-mason once said to me: almost all US presidents were masons. The church really doesn't have some kind of sieve that keeps out all the fakers and non-christians.

I only know RTA, not the other works of LMM.
Last edited by The Chef on Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Wild Roses » Wed May 07, 2008 9:22 am

You are clearly generalizing.
We DON'T have those things in OUR country. Thats for sure.
I made sure to say in my post 'in the U.S' because those who identify as fundamentalist Christians in the United States are prone to violence. (It is only the fundamentalists here....who make a point of putting on the fundamentalist before Christian. Most Christians just say they are Christian and say what strand of faith they are they from. Like Baptist or Catholic or Methodist or the whole list...) As I tried to make clear (but obviously failed), the terms fundamentalism and fundamentalist Christian is defined quite differently in the U.S. than it is in Europe.

Well, I have to give you props. I have never met any Christians who have issues with Tolkien or Lewis. Most of time their work is accepted in the Christian community without question. As you've probably figured out, I no longer identify as Christian (I identify as agnostic), but I do appreciate Tolkien and Lewis's work for its literary quality. (Well, I am an English Literature major.)

I totally agree with you on the ministers being total fakes though (which is a nice way of saying I think they are greedy, capitalist pigs).

I do think it unfair of you to label all witches and/or witchcraft as evil. I know some witches and they are some of the kindest, caring people I've ever met. (To be fair, you did say in an earlier post, if I'm remembering correctly, that it isn't the person that is evil, but the thoughts behind their actions.) It's like labeling all Christians and/or Christianity just because of the nitwits in the United States who do stupid stuff in the name of Christianity.

Bill Clinton evil? How? I would label George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, etc, evil before I labelled Bill Clinton evil. Although having watched a few History Channel specials, I'm inclined to agree with you that all of the U.S. Presidents (ex and current) seem to have ties to the Masons. But even the History Channel makes a point of labelling those programs 'conspiracy theory investigations' so I'm never entirely sure how seriously to take them. (I grew up with the X-Files, so I will never entirely rule out or disbelieve conspiracy theories, but I am very rational minded person all the same.)

I do enjoy our discussions. I will admit I do have tendency to come across as very blunt in my posts (I'm working on that but it will take awhile) but I always think it is fun to have discussions like this.

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Post by Wild Roses » Wed May 07, 2008 10:28 am

Here are some articles I pulled from google about LMM's belief's:

http://www.keepersofthefaith.com/BookRe ... .asp?key=3

That's the only one that will link (my computer won't let me open and link the other attachments I found) and although many LMM scholars have done research (and have written on) LMM's interest in Spiritualism and Transcendalism, I'm not finding any links on google. So I'll have to look up the books that the articles appear in. (Which will require a trip to the library.) Once I have the titles from the library I'll post them up here.

However, many LMM scholars who have specifically researched her beliefs are on the record that she was a Christian in name only and that her real beliefs fall somewhere along the lines of Paganism. (Although the evidence is clear just by her fiction alone. Many of the characters embrace a Pagan imagery and way of being.)

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Post by The Chef » Wed May 07, 2008 12:28 pm

Yes I felt I needed to be a bit defensive about my christianity, as you probably will understand. Usually christians are depicted as bigots who only hate those who do not conform to them. Christ died out of love for the human race. My christianity is for a great deal based on christian leaders such as Watchman Nee, who died in a Chinese laborcamp, Robert Govett M.A. (Oxford), and Keswick teaching.

I myself find no satisfaction in almost all of the present day christian authors or leaders. Most of it is man-made religion, using marketing strategies and a humanistic approach to christianity. I loath it. Outward success and numbers are what matters most to these people. I do not experience any bond with them whatsoever. There still are christians who sincerely try to live a christian life, realizing they do not have the power for it themselves.

The problem is, as soon as one uses words like "evil-doers" it automatically suggests to the mind of the hearer that those people are hated. There are evil things, and the people who do evil things are logically called evil-doers. However, Christ died for them out of love, to draw them to Himself. That is the message. The gospel is for all unbelievers and should be preached with love and wisdom, the warnings and admonitions are meant for those who are already beleivers. Thats a big difference, but unfortunately many christians use them indiscriminately.

As I indeed mentioned before, people can do things they deem good and beneficial out of the purest motives and out of kindness. Of course there are those kind of witches. The problem is, they often don't discriminate between good or evil power-sources. To them power is neutral. The christian view is that they are deceived into thinking that both the dark side and the good side of the Force are neutral, and that the persons themselves can change it into good or evil. It's not that they are "evil" in a nasty sense. I myself once had mesmeric (magnetizing) abilities, little realizing that the source of the power did not originate from God.

Well it's not widely known that for example Benjamin Franklin was a Rosecrusian and a member of the Hellfire Club, or that he was the inventor of the spectacles for that matter. Or that the history of the USA is largely rooted in the ideas of sir Francis Bacon. The Bushes have been members of Skull & Bones for 3 generations. The documents prove it, pictures and all. Read for example Prof. Antony C. Suttons book about the Order. Sutton was a Hoover research fellow, economics professor. He worked for the War Institute. Clinton is a high level mason, Obama is a Prince Hall Mason. The evil of Bush, Runsfeld and the like is seen more out in the open, but they all are but shoeshine boyws for the planners behind the scenes. I friend of mine who died several years ago was a mason himself before he was converted. He told me that all US presidents take their oath on a special masonic bible. The masonic dream is to spread democracy throughout the world. And you see it being carried out by the USA. They view the USA as some kind of new Atlantis. It's not the fault of the people, they cannot vote them out of office. The subject matter is too wide to debate it all here. I don't mind firy debates, as long as people will have respect for eachother.

As for christianity, a lot of Jungian psychology has crept into it, which clearly has caused a paradigm shift into a major part of christianity, such as the charismatics and the inner healing movement. It's a very dangerous thing. Jung himself balanced on the edge of a psychosis for 6 years. Hard to believe people take a man seriously who spent all his life trying to heal himself.
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A man fell in a deep pit and suffered greatly. A Buddhist said: 'Meditate and ignore your circumstances.' A Hindu said: 'You must have bad karma, you deserve your fate.' But Jesus had pity on the man, climbed down and rescued him.

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Post by Wild Roses » Thu May 08, 2008 5:57 am

What's wrong with democracy? I'll be the first to admit it is a flawed system, but it is equal and just than, say, the divine monarchy. Socialism is also a good if flawed system as well.
Usually christians are depicted as bigots who only hate those who do not conform to them.
Well, Christians generally have a tendency to depict everybody who doesn't identify as Christian as evil and immoral, so I guess it is only fair that the non-Christians get to call the Christians something back in return. (Well, actually, I would wish that everybody would get along but since that isn't going to happen, I can only say the equation balances itself out with how Christians and non-Christians think of each other.)

I grew up with Christianity and have seen the best and worse of Christians. I, of course, no longer identify as Christian, largely because I met non-Christians who weren't the dreaded 'evil-doers' as described to me in my childhood. It irks me to no end when Christians paint everybody else as evil and themselves as superior where morals and values are concerned. I find it a ridiculous and offensive assumption that only Christians are capable of good/only Christians have good and moral values because Christ died on the cross for them.

I've met more than a few non-Christians who could put the Christians I grew up with to shame where good values and doing good is concerned. (Happily I've also met a few very liberal Christians which has since reminded me that not all Christians are Jerry Falwell types.)

I notice that you keep attacking U. S. leaders and politics. While I see nothing wrong with that, I do wish you would recall that Europe doesn't exactly have it all when it comes to clean politicians. Certainly many seem to get cosy with U. S. leaders. One could say the European politicians enable the U. S. to do the dirty things it is doing right now.

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Post by The Chef » Thu May 08, 2008 9:33 am

Democracy is the best of the worst so to speak. But if you think about it real hard, you will come to the conclusion that democracy when taken to extremes, can only result into a totalitarian state. Sooner or later the minorities will have to succumb to the views of the majority. And what if the majority is wrong? Look at Nazi Germany, or the Roman Empire under Nero. These dictators could rise to the surface because of a fully functioning democratic system. Democracy works fine when it is operated by a people with western views. And democracy in it's current state has it's roots in christianity by the way. The whole of western civilization is based upon the ten commandments. But a democracy is very dangerous in islamic countries. It is no secret that islamic dictatorial states such as Saoudi Arabia and Egypt, confess that they are only just able to keep the islamic fundamentalists in check. If you want to know what happens when you introduce democracy into an islamic nation you only have to look at Iraq. Islamic fundamentalists only misuse the democratic system in order to try and set up an islamic state under sharia law. So even though I view democracy the best of all evils, I still am very, very glad that most islamic countries are dictatorial states! Moderate muslims are not even viewed as real muslims according to pure Islam and the Qur'an. Read for example "The Mosque Exposed" by islamic scholar Sam Solomon, who has studied sharia law for 15 years. Muslim extremists have said that they are thankful dor democracy in the west, because it gives them so much freedom to further their own islamic cause. So in fact, democracy only works for those who have a democratic mindset. Also, according to the Qur'an lying is condoned if it furthers the cause of Islam. Even perjury is permitted by the Qur'an for the sake of Islam. In Arabic there is the word "taqi'ya", which means deception, defence, or guarding", and in the islamic context it means that when muslims are still a minority in a western country , they are permitted to lie to and deceive us, even fake integration, but when they grow in numbers, they change their faces entirely. It's the same with the so-called "hudna" or "cease-fire" used by Hamas. Muhammad used it too when his army was weaker than the army of his enemy. But as soon as he was stronger, he cancelled the hudna. It's just a tactic. There is no peace in Islam untill the whole world has become a mosque. Peace in Islam has a different meaning than peace in the mind of the west. Semantics can be very confusing. Socialism, hm, as long as it doesn't change to communism. By the way, we may think we still live in a democracy, but did you know that for example in your country, the USA, the "hate crime law" lists the following people as "dangerous terrorists": (1) those who take the bible literally, (2) those who seriously reckons with the second coming of Christ, (3) those who homeschool their children, (4) those whol pile up food for more than 3 months, (4) those who punish their children by beating them. Or even worse, the US hate crime law deems the following people as guilty of hate crimes: (1) those who criticize the government and disagree with the president, (2) those who speak out against homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle. And before I get attacked on the issue of homosexuality: my own brother is a homosexual, he is not a believer, and I still love him. My own views about homosexuality can be found here: http://www.narth.com

So you see, people may think they live in a democracy, and it may appear so on the surface: we can vote, say what we want, etcetera, but the route which a country takes, do you really believe "we the people" determine that? I don't think so.

About the superiority of christians. Christians are not able to live a christian life. Only Christ can. Christians have nothing to boast about. They can only try to let Christ shine forth through them. Christianity is Christ, nothing else. Christian history is full of evil too. For example John Calvin, who ordered Baptists to be drowned in the river because they baptized people after conversion, and for the second time for that matter. Or Martin Luther and his antisemitism. It's all because of a mind not fully renewed. A wrong thought in the mind, can obscure even the dearest heart. That's why a wrong belief or thought in the mind can be a dangerous thing. But it has to be said, that christianity indeed claims to have the absolute truth. NOT because christians "know better" or "are better", but because of the claims of Jesus Christ as to what and who He is. The absolute truth or moral superiority is not inherent in the christians, but only in Christ Himself. So anyone who wants to attack pure christianity can only ligitimately do so by attacking the claims and life of Christ. In these days christianity is largely a fallen christianity, acting according to it's own mind, thus offending God and paiting a picture of Him that is not in accordance with who He really is.

Also, if I am permitted to dive a little bit deeper into theology and what "evil" is: some people have a kind soul, some people have a rude soul. There are christians who have a rude nature, and there are non-christians who have a kind nature. So one might ask, why would a christian be better than a non-christian? A legitimate and logical question. The Bible talks about "fleshly christians" and about the "natural man." The Bible divides man into spirit, soul and body. Christ lives in the spirit of the christian, but if he does not let his spirit where Christ lives, govern his body and soul, he doesn't look any bettger than a non-christian. The natural man is called the "soulical man", he who is governed by his own soul. This can be applied to both christians and non-christians. But, even the kindess and patience of the kindest soul has it's limits. Even the kindness of the kindest person has it's limits. And because God requires perfection in love, the natural soul of man does not stand up to His expectations. And that's where "christian living" comes in. If I myself try to be patient, I will find my natural or soulical patience has it's limitations, but the patience of Christ in my spirit has no limit. Many christians do not even know this. They try to live the christian life in their own power and they do not even know how to live "by and through Christ." Today's christianity is rather limited and it lacks the life of Christ. That's what I meant with "humanistic christianity."

The fact that I didn't mention European politicians doesn't mean I find no fault with them. Anyone who studies European history, will find that the whole idea of a European Union sprung from the mind of an aristocratic freemason. Yes I'm sorry but everywhere you look in history, somehowe masons have been playing a pivotal role. It's not that I'm into conspiracy theories, but it does strike me as too coincidental. Read for example Nesta Webster's work (Secret Societies and Subversive Movements, World Revolution), or Edith Starr-Miller's work (Occult Theocracy). What Europe did in the Serbian-Kosovo war was also criminal. Europe is so close with the US because it needs the US. Europe and the US need eachother with regard to the Middle East and it's primary weapon: oil. Oil is a powerful weapon, and some experts think that somewhere around 2016 we will reach a break-even point in demand-supply. Saoudi Arabia still has about 260 billion barrels of crude oil underneath its sandy soil, but the US alone uses 23 million barrels each day, and with China and other countries groing as fast as a green cabbage, the need for oil will grow steadily. The ME has a powerful weapon. Remember the oil crisis of 1973? America and Holland were hit the hardest, because of their friendship with Israel. My concern is that ME Islamic countries will force the whole world into action against Israel, which is the only democratic country in the ME ... There's no difference between the US and Europe. In fact, historically the US is but an extension of Europe.
Last edited by The Chef on Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A man fell in a deep pit and suffered greatly. A Buddhist said: 'Meditate and ignore your circumstances.' A Hindu said: 'You must have bad karma, you deserve your fate.' But Jesus had pity on the man, climbed down and rescued him.

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Post by The Chef » Thu May 08, 2008 4:51 pm

I read the article you linked above concerning LMM's beliefs. I see she also used the Ouija board, which I've done too, next to automatic writing. So I know the feeling. And I find she probably abondoned her faith for the same reasons many others have abandoned it: mainly because of pre-supposed irregularities between the good character of God and things like eternal suffering in hellfire. They cannot reconcile these and something "snaps" inside their minds. To them the christian God is illogical. The famous psycho-analyst Carl Jung even went so far as to blaspheme God by suggesting that God probably suffered from schizophrenic hysteria because of His nervous atttitude toward sin, and that God needed his (Jung's!) psychotherapy to be cured from it! How deep can a person sink ...

This all goes back to a certain interpretation of the teaching of predestination, specifically "supra-lapsarism" and "infra-lapsarism," two theological terms referring to the fact that God would somehow pre-determine that this person would go to hell, and that person would be saved, and that there's nothing we can do about it. However, hell was NEVER created for humanity but for the devil and his angels, and predestination concerns a being predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. God doesn't want anybody to go to hell. That's why there is the gospel. If some people would accuse God of being cruel, I will counter that by saying that the provision Christ made for us on the cross - and I say it reverently - could even have saved Hitler if he truly had repented. And no, I cannot imagine the suffering that evil man has caused, and who am I to speak for those who have suffered under his hands, but what I'm saying is that people don't understand the magnitude of Christ's work on the cross, and thus they also do not appreciate what the nature and enormous depth of His suffering was. We probably would never have forgiven Hitler, we probably couldn't even if we wanted, because his evil overwhelms and confuses us. But God is greater than our hearts. And His forgiveness is not cheap, but is based on righteousness. I once mentioned this to a landlady I was staying with for several weeks, and she looked at me as if she saw water burning. People just don't see that God's love is an incomprehensibly vast, bottomless, shoreless sea before which one can only kneel in joyful silence, and from which the loftiest eloquence retreats confused and abashed. Such is God's love and grace. It can really make a person blush ...

One very good book about what God's justice is, what sin is, and whether eternal suffering is really justified for those who have rejected Jesus willingly and knowlingly, is "Eternal Suffering of the Wicked and Hades", by Robert Govett MA. It deals with key issues such as God's character, God's justice, the nature and seriousness of sin, and so on. Everybody has questions. I do too. But when I do not know the answer, I conclude that the fault lies with me, not with God. No one wants to see another person suffer for eternity. Do we think that we are more sensitive towards the fate of any human being than God is? God is often maligned for things He is not and was never responsible for. The reasonings of such persons as LMM are entirely natural. I can follow her line of thinking and reasoning perfectly. And her conclusions would be right, if she had full knowledge of God and His character, but apparently she had not. But there is not 1 human being on earth who has 100% truth in everything. No man is infallible, and that is cause for humility, certainly when touching upon such important matters as God and eternity. You don't trifle with that.

I have found that people often reject christianity because they draw conclusions too soon about who and what God is. Once they have made up their mind they close the mind and you can't talk with them anymore. I do understand it though, because they feel as if they are being manipulated and forced into believing something. And who wants that. But I do feel that many pass judgment too soon.
A man fell in a deep pit and suffered greatly. A Buddhist said: 'Meditate and ignore your circumstances.' A Hindu said: 'You must have bad karma, you deserve your fate.' But Jesus had pity on the man, climbed down and rescued him.

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