Gus' fate...

[hannikan]

That's a good point. Also, when he started, Simon Tremayne wasn't in partnership with Hetty, either. (In fact, "Heirs and Graces"--which was when Felix started at the hotel--also marked Simon's first appearance.) However, he did have a bit of a rapport with Chef Pierre, as seen in "High Society". So he would've known someone who worked there either way.

Yes, he did but Mr. Tremayne and Pierre didn't exactly see eye to eye. So I'm not sure Pierre's endorsement would have helped Felix.

[Timothy]

He could get the other workers to protest against him again and maybe get Janet and Hetty involved to help get a new owner. Then that new owner could see Gus as a mover and a shaker and give him opportunities for advancement. Maybe then he'd have him in charge of the boats that went out to catch the fish (I think Gus actually said in Aunt Hetty's Ordeal that he did sometimes help catch the fish but that might have just been right at the shore of Avonlea). I could see that as an alternative to the hotel for him. Still might have been worried about Hetty and Felicity complaining he smelled like fish though And it might have stepped a little bit on the storyline about Olivia and Jasper's running of the cannery.

I like that scenerio. I was hoping that Felicity would move beyond the "fish smell" after High Society, especially since Felicity cleaning the stalls at King Farm can't smell that pleasant either. Can you imagine Felicity, after cleaning the cow stalls, telling Gus he smells bad?

[hannikan]

Yeah it was really Hetty who made a big deal about the fish smell. I think that made Gus self conscious about it. I do think working with fish all day reeks worse than "good ol' country smell" as my grandpa used to call manure,etc... I'm sure both Felicity and Gus washed themselves quite thoroughly before they went out on the town...

[Miss Lewis]

But I guess I didn't understand it to have come crashing down. They still expressed to one another that they loved each other. I don't think he thought they wouldn't have a family in the future. I think there was still very much the understanding that they would always be a part of each other's lives. Maybe it's hard for me to not think that because I am so aware of what happens soon after. I just don't think Felicity ever gave the impression that she didn't want to marry him only that she wanted to wait.

Gus was getting tired of waiting. He had already been waiting awhile (ever since Felicity’s perfect beu ). At of Otherwise Engaged, he gave her the ring with no strings attached. He still hoped to marry Felicity later but symbolically he gave her the ring as way of letting her become who she wanted to be--even if that meant he was never be part of her life. Hannkian, you have to look at the episode in content of what was happening then not in what will happen later in the series. In the future, Felicity COULD decide to be a doctor. Then she may not want to or have time to get married.

Plus I would have missed him mentoring Felix and being like a big brother to the King kids.

I don't think the hotel was the only way that Gus could have bonded with Felix or the King family. Gus could have been a mentor to Felix in other ways and it didn't necessarily mean working at the hotel. Gus could teach Felix about life while going ice fishing or going sailing together. It's interesting that Felix ends up choosing an occupation in the last episode that requires going out to sea for long periods. I guess his future didn't lie at the White Sands either.

I agree with Hannikan here. Felix and Gus bonding won’t have happen as well during ice fishing. How often did we see the characters do ice fishing? I can only remember one time (in Friends and Relations). In fact most of the fishing done by the King family or Gus happen in the first 3 seasons.

And it might have stepped a little bit on the storyline about Olivia and Jasper's running of the cannery.

Yes, it would have stepped on the Olivia and Jasper running the cannery storyline. I can just see Clara Potts gossiping about the King’s plotting to overthrow McCorkadale to get the Cannery for themselves.

Timothy, I like the idea of Gus Pike having a small boat job. The biggest question I have is: how would that job tied into the rest of the Avonlea charcters and storylines center around the hotel? (unless you are suggesting that hotel “centerness” be dropped in favor of different location.)

[hannikan]

But I guess I didn't understand it to have come crashing down. They still expressed to one another that they loved each other. I don't think he thought they wouldn't have a family in the future. I think there was still very much the understanding that they would always be a part of each other's lives. Maybe it's hard for me to not think that because I am so aware of what happens soon after. I just don't think Felicity ever gave the impression that she didn't want to marry him only that she wanted to wait.

Gus was getting tired of waiting. He had already been waiting awhile (ever since Felicity’s perfect beu ). At of Otherwise Engaged, he gave her the ring with no strings attached. He still hoped to marry Felicity later but symbolically he gave her the ring as way of letting her become who she wanted to be--even if that meant he was never be part of her life. Hannkian, you have to look at the episode in content of what was happening then not in what will happen later in the series. In the future, Felicity COULD decide to be a doctor. Then she may not want to or have time to get married.

Yes, that's why I said I might have a hard time since I know what happens later. I don't think I'm alone in that being a factor in how one sees any storyline that continues over multiple episodes/seasons. However, even when I do my best to erase that I know what happens later, I do not think that Gus thought by OE that there was a strong possibility that he wouldn't be a part of Felicity's life. Earlier in their relationship he might have more but by this point, no. He knew (since she told him) that becoming a doctor didn't mean as much to her as Gus did. I actually see it as "the ball was more in his court" because Felicity was willing to give up her dream. Gus was right to realize that she would be unhappy if she didn't pursue it but I still think the episode ended with him holding the power. It's true the ring was given no strings attached but I think that Felicity was just as unsure whether Gus still wanted to marry her at the end of OE. She seemed to be afraid that by asking him to wait she'd lost him forever. That's partly why she was so concerned about Charlotte Ames in ROGP (of course CA was pretty flirty with Gus I thought, too).

[Timothy]

Timothy, I like the idea of Gus Pike having a small boat job. The biggest question I have is: how would that job tied into the rest of the Avonlea charcters and storylines center around the hotel? (unless you are suggesting that hotel “centerness” be dropped in favor of different location.)

I would completely decentralize the hotel as the series hub. It made Hetty out of character and it made Gus like a fish out of water, so to speak. Sullivan created one of the most brilliant set/landscapes in television history. I'm sure the writers could have been more imaginative and not limited so much time to the hotel.

[hannikan]

Timothy, I like the idea of Gus Pike having a small boat job. The biggest question I have is: how would that job tied into the rest of the Avonlea charcters and storylines center around the hotel? (unless you are suggesting that hotel “centerness” be dropped in favor of different location.)

I would completely decentralize the hotel as the series hub. It made Hetty out of character and it made Gus like a fish out of water, so to speak. Sullivan created one of the most brilliant set/landscapes in television history. I'm sure the writer could have been more imaginative and not limited so much time to the hotel.

I don't think that argument is true of any time except perhaps S4. Season 4 is very White Sands heavy. That season has a lot of winter episodes and that may have something to do with it. The cast and crew wouldn't have been freezing themselves stiff outside, which I think they kind of did in S3. By the same token S1 is very Rose Cottage heavy. I always found Rose Cottage to be too gingerbready and had a hard time imagining Hetty living there. It seemed like Hansel and Gretel should pop out from somewhere to me. I was glad the cannery and the lighthouse were introduced in S2. Before and after S4 the hotel is only one of many locations used frequently. You're right, Timothy, Sullivan found a beautiful natural setting and created IMO the most beautiful TV site ever. But according to our guide at AvCon this summer, who was a location scout, some parts of it created a lot of logistical problems in filming, esp interiors. Places like the church and the school were tricky because they actually used the interiors of the real buildings. I think that is probably why the hotel was used more in the middle of the series. They built an interior set of it (which looks quite a bit different from the real interior of that hotel) so things could happen in different parts of the hotel. I'm not sure that it was the writers being lazy as it was constraints put on them by filming. I for one liked the variety of locations used throughout the show including the White Sands which is a beautiful hotel IRL and on the show. In the early seasons the church was used more and I can actually see the limitations of the space for filming. I was glad to see the hotel come in for some variety but I wouldn't have wanted everything to happen there either. I was glad the cannery came back in S5, for example. If the only places they had used were the farm, the church, the general store and the school I would have been a bit bored.

[Shelly]

I would say Season 4 may be the most hotel-heavy.

On S4 itself... At least seven of those thirteen episodes were set in/filmed during winter. Setting virtually any winter episode at the cannery or on a fishing boat (large or small!) would've been out of the question, IMO. While it may've made more sense or would've been more interesting--to some--for Gus to work there (and for Hetty not to have anything to do with the hotel), somehow I don't know if that would've made sense from a practical, logistical standpoint, never mind for what his character, ultimately, wanted to achieve (being a gentleman, impressing Felicity and Hetty), not to mention him becoming a part of Avonlea itself (also important).

Meanwhile, if the hotel wasn't a central hub of activity in S4 (especially), what location would've been a better choice?

[Timothy]

Meanwhile, if the hotel wasn't a central hub of activity in S4 (especially), what location would've been a better choice?

I would have the story line govern where the central location was, rather than be limited to one location dictating the events. I would have spread the locations out around the town, similiar to how Heather Conkie did it during the first two seasons.

As far as winter filming is concerned, Mag Ruffman has indicated that the majority of filming was in the winter. She mentioned how it was rare to get an episode where it was actually warm because of the filming schedule. Even when it was supposed to be warm they were often cold. The cast adapted to the cold by purchasing cold-weather mountain clothing to wear under their set clothing. As professionals, they were able to work through adverse conditions so I think the argument that it's too cold for a particular setting is a non-factor.

[hannikan]

I guess I don't think the early episodes were much more varied in location. There were new characters introduced in the 4th season that brought in new locations that I enjoyed. Early on, I think they tried to use Green Gables at times when it really didn't benefit the plot. Materializing of Duncan McTavish was just an excuse to have Marilla in the show but it wasn't a great episode. I don't think that episode was very true to her character. Rachel worked well on RTA but I don't really think Marilla did. Maybe it was too strange to see her without Anne. A lot of the same types of things happened over and over at the Avonlea Chronicle, the church and the schoolhouse, too. I thought it was time to branch out from those locations to allow for new storylines. I also preferred when King Farm was used more often than it was originally. I got tired of episodes revolving around Sara, Olivia and Hetty at Rose Cottage. I liked when we got to see the dynamic btwn Janet, Alec, Felix, Cecily, Felicity and Digger at home more than we did originally. I think we could have seen the Dales more frequently and I liked when we saw them at home.

As for the weather conditions, of course the actors and crew were professionals who adapted. But sometimes adaptations really don't work or are so difficult to work in it makes sense to try to do something different. Like Shelly said trying to set up the cannery in the snow or taking a small boat out on the water in winter would not have worked well. I mean I think they could have done cannery scenes 1-2 more times in the 3rd season (having Gus start at the hotel a little later than he did) and maybe showed Gus working on a small boat once in seasonable weather. But I think working at the hotel did make sense for his character. Not forever, but for a time it did. Somehow I doubt the intention was to have him work there forever. I have a hard time seeing later storylines for Gus being that he worked at the hotel. I think having him go away to sea after realizing the hotel was not what he thought it would be like made total sense. I think it's nice to have few new places from time to time alongside places that are familiar and recurring throughout the show. The White Sands is a familiar place that we develop affection for (well, I did anyway) and even harkens back to the Anne films but is not so linked in everyone's mind with Anne as Green Gables is.

[StoryJan]

I've always thought of Season 4 as the White Sands Winter. Was it the setting that dictated the stories or the stories that dictated the setting? I think you can make an argument for both cases. Filming in a central location had to have been cheaper than filming in multiple locations, but I missed all of the little places that made Avonlea special... the pond, the schoolhouse, the orchard... the parts of Avonlea that made it "Avonlea" in the same tradition as Anne's Haunted Woods, White Way of Delight, and Lake of Shining Waters. By Season 4, Avonlea had become its own entity rather than "Anne's Avonlea." While I enjoyed the expanded dynamics of the King family, I had a difficult time transitioning from the Sara/Hetty show to the Felicity/Gus show. For me, it was like shifting the Anne of Green Gables story from Anne/Marilla to Diana/Fred. Full of interesting moments in its own right, but very different from the show I originally fell in love with. I also missed the many supporting characters who evidently just never made it out to the White Sands as much as the King Family- Clemmie Ray, Sally Potts, and Jane Spry. I never had any issues with Gus working at the hotel; I thought this fit in fine with his plan to better himself for Felicity. By the time "Hearth and Home" rolled around, I was ready for the spring thaw and thankful to live in a warmer climate

[hannikan]

Oh, but Felicity and Gus were so much more interesting than Diana and Fred! I know what you mean though. They were focused on a lot in S4 but not really so much after that. Plus there's still stuff that happens at the pond, the schoolhouse, General Store. The church not so much. I don't remb seeing the apple orchard more than once (in Conversions). Are there other times I'm forgetting? Other times it's just parts of the farm. S4 focuses a lot on the animals rather than the plants of Avonlea, too, because of bringing Arthur in. King Barn is the focus a lot in S4. S5 has more summer episodes which are always lovely. It's nice to have more outdoor settings. It's just like in real life for me I'm always ready for the seasons to change when they do.

[Timothy]

As for the weather conditions, of course the actors and crew were professionals who adapted. But sometimes adaptations really don't work or are so difficult to work in it makes sense to try to do something different. Like Shelly said trying to set up the cannery in the snow or taking a small boat out on the water in winter would not have worked well.

Most of the cannery set was simply Jasper's workshop structure and it was located a short walk from Rose Cottage on the Uxbridge property, so I don't see any special difficulty with scenes at this location. There doesn't have to be a lot of small boat scenes. You simply show it once or twice to show where Gus was working.

By the time of the hotel centered 'What A Tangled Web,' I was completely dissatisfied with how uncharacteristic the characters were being portrayed and the general lack of ideas. I felt like I was watching a mediocre spin-off series called 'Avonlea Hotel.'

I like the concept of the White Sands Hotel and the set is wonderful, but I just think there was a bit too much emphasis on this set at times.

I've always thought of Season 4 as the White Sands Winter. Was it the setting that dictated the stories or the stories that dictated the setting? I think you can make an argument for both cases. Filming in a central location had to have been cheaper than filming in multiple locations, but I missed all of the little places that made Avonlea special... the pond, the schoolhouse, the orchard... the parts of Avonlea that made it "Avonlea" in the same tradition as Anne's Haunted Woods, White Way of Delight, and Lake of Shining Waters.

I think the producers had the advantage of having the set structures in close proximity to each other. If they wanted to transition from a Rose Cottage to a cannery scene, the crew only had to travel a short distance.

[hannikan]

Well WATWWW is a terrible episode so I won't disagree with you there. That is an example of the White Sands not being used well. But S6 has other locations besides the White Sands. That is really a season without a central location. My two least favorite White Sands episodes are WATWWW and Total Eclipse. But that is mostly because I can't stand Selena Dale. The whole premise for TE was really bad I thought. This has really digressed from being about Gus. Perhaps we should start a new thread...

[Gosia]

Hi all,
I'm new here. I grew up wathcing RTA (back when it was just Avonlea) on the Disney channel when I was 13, back in 1990. I begged and pleaded with my mom to subscribe to the Disney channel just so I could watch this incredible show with ties to PEI. (I had grown up watching AOGG). I thought it a delightful family show and loved Gus, Sarah, and Felix. I grew to like Felicity though it took a while to like her and in the end came to love her as well. Also, Felix and his friendship with Izzy was nice. I stopped watching after season 3 or 4- during high school for some reason. So, I never got to see how the series ended. I recently rediscovered RTA and have watched the last 2 seasons. I liked the way they ended it, it was kind of bittersweet having Gus lose his sight though. I am glad to have had the memories of this show growing up and am glad that there is a board that is just as into it as I was!

Thanks,
Margaret